(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:2]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[shygost]PB[shygost]DT[2006-01-21]PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Howdy!
davidwatt [7k\]: hi
Launchpad [-\]: hiyooo
kiusao [-\]: Hello
RikiTiki [3k?\]: hello shy
SilkLegsy [15k\]: hello
ChiyoDad [19k\]: I can hear.
GameFAQs [12k\]: I can hear you.
SilkLegsy [15k\]: yes i can hear u
SudenDeath [7k\]: yes yes
sduff [17k?\]: yes!
MysticoN [10k\]: I can hear you
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Okay with me. I wasn't able to attend.
sduff [17k?\]: Chiyo, I saw your name in the listbox on Tuesday
ChiyoDad [19k\]: listbox?
sduff [17k?\]: the list of users
ChiyoDad [19k\]: users of the downloads?
ChiyoDad [19k\]: I'm sure I dropped in. :-)
Launchpad [-\]: postage went up
Launchpad [-\]: :)
sduff [17k?\]: Shy, the $1 amounts may be because i put a  donation button on tengen.bur.st, and it was fixed at a dolla
sduff [17k?\]: =)
GameFAQs [12k\]: Hahaha.
MysticoN [10k\]: :p
ckg [15k\]: it should be left up to the person 
sduff [17k?\]: i've changed it so that you can put in any amount now
shygost [-\]: shygost@pacbell.net
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Hmm ... 
olczyk [15k\]: Using influence.
NannyOgg [-\]: i guess we need improvement in EVERY subject :p
wetnose [16k\]: want to recommend some kyu books?
wetnose [16k\]: lol yeah as nannyogg says..
ChiyoDad [19k\]: How do actually use a sanrensei fuseki?
SudenDeath [7k\]: you want to dicuss the avalanch?
SudenDeath [7k\]: *_*
GameFAQs [12k\]: "Thickness isn't supposed to make territory"? What is that supposed to mean?!
sduff [17k?\]: maybe make a list on senseis?
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Yeesh! The avalanche josekis are so deep!
k1k1 [30k?\]: hi
tetris [-\]: i love davies, think everyone should have it
MysticoN [10k\]: joseki isnt so important
NannyOgg [-\]: oh, i like the list on sensei's idea, sduff
MysticoN [10k\]: many strong players dont know many :P
Siru [10k?\]: hey everyone! ^_^
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Yep! Those are great!
NannyOgg [-\]: hi siru
Spartan101 [8k?\]: hello everyone
olczyk [15k\]: Otake, "Opening Theory Made Easy". "The Fundamental Principles of Go."
k1k1 [30k?\]: hello
wetnose [16k\]: so very naturally
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
NannyOgg [-\]: so basicest would be ok, tet?
mallow [19k?\]: that is not the importantest thing here right now. I think we know what is meant by "hugest"
gryn [17k?\]: my favourite is "beautifulest"
cynewulf [?\]: q16
SilkLegsy [15k\]: r 17
Launchpad [-\]: r16
olczyk [15k\]: K10
]
(;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[dp]CR[dp]
;B[oc]CR[oc]
;W[dd]CR[dd]
;B[pp]CR[pp]
(;W[qj]LB[qi:C][qj:B][qk:A])
(;W[nq]CR[nq]C[Launchpad [-\]: :)
Siru [10k?\]: lol
Spectrums [30k\]: hugest... I like it@!
tetris [-\]: hugest is a word
GameFAQs [12k\]: Hehe.
wetnose [16k\]: no way..
tetris [-\]: you can add "est" to any adjective legitimately
Gst34578: how about d10
])
(;W[jc]CR[jc]))
(;B[pd]CR[pd]
(;W[qf]CR[qf]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: r 16
Spartan101 [8k?\]: 16!
tetris [-\]: you guys are right, not all of them are good
tetris [-\]: i was wrong
NannyOgg [-\]: :)
])
(;W[pq]CR[pq]C[Fishbulb [12k\]: hugest is right though...
tetris [-\]: hard to find a rule though
tetris [-\]: hugest is fine
ChiyoDad [19k\]: c16
GameFAQs [12k\]: Wait, I read that was bad.
davidwatt [7k\]: D16 
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
gryn [17k?\]: d16
wetnose [16k\]: Q5
Spectrums [30k\]: C16
GameFAQs [12k\]: Isn;t q3 in the wrong direction?
ChiyoDad [19k\]: q5 then
NannyOgg [-\]: Q5
gryn [17k?\]: q5
GameFAQs [12k\]: Takeo Kajiwara makes a huge point on this in his book.
charkysan [12k\]: d4 they say is if you want diagonal fighting game
ckg [15k\]: how can that be a bad direction?
GameFAQs [12k\]: Hmm.
]
;B[qo]CR[qo]C[GameFAQs [12k\]: I'll check my book again...
]
;W[dd]CR[dd]C[Spectrums [30k\]: D4
ChiyoDad [19k\]: d4
Launchpad [-\]: c3
SilkLegsy [15k\]: c4
k1k1 [30k?\]: Why is it better to play q5 than q3?
tetris [-\]: d4
GameFAQs [12k\]: E3
Fishbulb [12k\]: e3
Agilis [10k\]: C5 
wetnose [16k\]: C4
ckg [15k\]: c4
MysticoN [10k\]: E4
NannyOgg [-\]: D4
]
;B[dp]CR[dp]LB[mp:B][mq:A]C[Naara [24k\]: c4
olczyk [15k\]: But he has sente.
]
;W[pl]LB[pn:A][no:C][oo:B]TR[pd][dp]C[gryn [17k?\]: p5?
dolphyfan [22k\]: why Q8 and not R8?
MysticoN [10k\]: P5 
kiusao [-\]: P5 ?
seancl [23k\]: P5
Launchpad [-\]: p5
SudenDeath [7k\]: q6
wetnose [16k\]: Q5
NannyOgg [-\]: Q6
ChiyoDad [19k\]: p6
k1k1 [30k?\]: don't bother asking, I don't think anybody's gonna answer
Agilis [10k\]: Q6 
SudenDeath [7k\]: q6
ckg [15k\]: p5
GameFAQs [12k\]: That so, k1...?
Spectrums [30k\]: q6
gryn [17k?\]: p5 p5! :)
k1k1 [30k?\]: yeah
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Won't p6 put pressure on Q8?
mallow [19k?\]: R2 is too close to the rim, right?
kiusao [-\]: Q6 ?
olczyk [15k\]: Isn't P^ highly cuttable?
olczyk [15k\]: P6
]
(;B[mp]CR[mp]
;W[po]CR[po]
;B[jp]CR[jp]
;W[qp]CR[qp]
;B[dj]CR[dj]C[charkysan [12k\]: is it windy there?
GameFAQs [12k\]: ^^
wetnose [16k\]: lol not right
])
(;B[pn]CR[pn]C[NannyOgg [-\]: better to jump to P5 or O5
]
;W[np]CR[np]
;B[rq]CR[rq]
;W[jq]CR[jq])
(;B[no]CR[no]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Too timid.
]
(;W[mq]CR[mq]LB[pj:B][nl:A]C[Siru [10k?\]: N7??
]
(;B[pj]CR[pj]C[elciego [27k?\]: what's wrong with Q5?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: what is it called?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: what was the other called?
NannyOgg [-\]: Q5 is too slow
elciego [27k?\]: ok
Spartan101 [8k?\]: this one
seancl [23k\]: Does the high vs. low pinch principle (whoever controls the opposite corner) hold true in most other situations, too?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i didnt know this
Spartan101 [8k?\]: thx
]
(;W[po]CR[po]C[elciego [27k?\]: i meant 2 moves ago
]
;B[pn]CR[pn]
;W[oo]CR[oo]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[qn]CR[qn])
(;W[nl]CR[nl]C[olczyk [15k\]: Why is Q10 harder then R10?
Launchpad [-\]: m4?
gryn [17k?\]: M5
Selenity [30k\]: m4...?
MysticoN [10k\]: m4
Spartan101 [8k?\]: m5
tetris [-\]: i've seen p4
SilkLegsy [15k\]: m6
kiusao [-\]: R3 ?
Batavia [11k\]: O10 
Gst34578: j3
gryn [17k?\]: M5
ChiyoDad [19k\]: o10
kiusao [-\]: Q4 ?
]
(;B[lo]CR[lo]C[mallow [19k?\]: black looks still in danger of being sealed in there
])
(;B[lp]CR[lp]C[Selenity [30k\]: M4.
ckg [15k\]: 010
gryn [17k?\]: O10 = black being surrounded?
Siru [10k?\]: N7? maybe
]
;W[lq]CR[lq]C[gryn [17k?\]: L4
ChiyoDad [19k\]: l4
]
;B[kp]CR[kp]C[MysticoN [10k\]: l4
tetris [-\]: l4
]
;W[kq]CR[kq]C[SudenDeath [7k\]: don't like m4 :\\
hotcoffee [11k\]: K4
]
;B[jp]CR[jp]C[wetnose [16k\]: one more
tetris [-\]: but w pushing from behind... ?
]
(;W[jq]CR[jq]TR[jp][kp][lp]C[kiusao [-\]: J3 
Launchpad [-\]: m8
gryn [17k?\]: anywhere?
ChiyoDad [19k\]: hane j3
tetris [-\]: m8
Spartan101 [8k?\]: o10
NannyOgg [-\]: O10
Launchpad [-\]: ?
mallow [19k?\]: H3?
GameFAQs [12k\]: Nope.
Launchpad [-\]: yep
tetris [-\]: yep
MysticoN [10k\]: yes
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
wetnose [16k\]: nope
ckg [15k\]: yes
gryn [17k?\]: we know it now :)
Gst34578: no
SudenDeath [7k\]: yap
Siru [10k?\]: yup
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Hadn't heard it.
xix [19k?\]: no
Spartan101 [8k?\]: no
SilkLegsy [15k\]: now
daveh [19k?\]: do now
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i lost my last game because of this!
]
(;B[ip]CR[ip])
(;B[sa]CR[sa]
;W[mp]CR[mp]C[Batavia [11k\]: now i do
]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
(;W[lo]CR[lo]
;B[ln]CR[ln]C[Selenity [30k\]: Law of three? T_T
]
;W[ko]CR[ko]
;B[jn]CR[jn]C[Siru [10k?\]: lol
dolphyfan [22k\]: experientially
charkysan [12k\]: we know it from bitter experience
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i c
])
(;W[ip]CR[ip]))
(;AB[ic][jc][kc]C[olczyk [15k\]: Hane at the end of two. Seem we hjave conflicting proverbs?
]))
(;W[iq]CR[iq]LB[ll:B][op:A]TR[oo][po]C[Selenity [30k\]: Liberty?
ChiyoDad [19k\]: ah
MysticoN [10k\]: hane end of two only count if you have 2 stones 
GameFAQs [12k\]: Hoho..
gryn [17k?\]: selenity liberty is a empty spot next to a group.
Launchpad [-\]: gotcha
Selenity [30k\]: Thanks Gryn
gryn [17k?\]: selenity np np :)
NannyOgg [-\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Liberty
SudenDeath [7k\]: h5
Launchpad [-\]: m8
wetnose [16k\]: Nu
Siru [10k?\]: N7?
kiusao [-\]: P4 ?
wetnose [16k\]: N7
Webmaster [29k?\]: k3? >_>;
SilkLegsy [15k\]: c8
wetnose [16k\]: maybe peep first
Uvas [-\]: ok
kiusao [-\]: P4?
wetnose [16k\]: also..HOW do you fix this?
tetris [-\]: heh
Siru [10k?\]: ah! lost audio
mallow [19k?\]: So it's basically "when it becomes urgent"?
tetris [-\]: no
MysticoN [10k\]: siru rejoin
NannyOgg [-\]: just go in and out, siru
Siru [10k?\]: jus did
MysticoN [10k\]: it usually helps
toastcrumb [15k\]: Ooh, okay. 
tetris [-\]: a
Webmaster [29k?\]: B
Jaydee [19k\]: b
cynewulf [?\]: B
toastcrumb [15k\]: thank you. 
ChiyoDad [19k\]: B
NannyOgg [-\]: A
MysticoN [10k\]: B
Deebster [16k?\]: b
seancl [23k\]: A
GameFAQs [12k\]: B
wetnose [16k\]: B
Batavia [11k\]: B
Siru [10k?\]: is N7 unplayable?
daveh [19k?\]: Q4 is no good?
gryn [17k?\]: B
dolphyfan [22k\]: transcripts are fantastic, sduff! thank you!!
tetris [-\]: a sente
Spartan101 [8k?\]: a first
ckg [15k\]: a
mallow [19k?\]: b
]
(;B[sa]CR[sa]C[Hu [11k?\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Liberty
]
;W[ip]CR[ip]C[GameFAQs [12k\]: Gryn, I'm PM'ing you. >_>
])
(;B[ll]CR[ll]C[tetris [-\]: uvas!
Siru [10k?\]: lol
sduff [17k?\]: toast, transcript available by next lesson at tengen.bur.st
]
;W[po]CR[po]C[MysticoN [10k\]: ok
]
;B[pn]CR[pn]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: If you lose audio. Exit and return.
]
;W[oo]CR[oo]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[qn]CR[qn]
;B[qm]CR[qm]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: yyeah
]
;W[rn]CR[rn]
;B[rm]CR[rm]
;W[ro]CR[ro]
;B[pm]CR[pm]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: 0b huge prfit
Spartan101 [8k?\]: B*
tetris [-\]: right
toastcrumb [15k\]: Man. This sucks. I don't have speakers. -.-; 
Launchpad [-\]: yay
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Family feud.
Fishbulb [12k\]: lol toastcrumb
shygost [-\]: sorry toast...
ckg [15k\]: lol
Launchpad [-\]: plug headphones in the back
toastcrumb [15k\]: oh well. I can just guess whats going on. XD
])
(;B[nj]CR[nj]C[Uvas [-\]: hi lilly
olczyk [15k\]: Guon Juan calls this a hamburger.
]
;W[ln]CR[ln]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[on]CR[on]
;B[oo]CR[oo]
;W[jn]CR[jn])
(;B[op]CR[op]C[charkysan [12k\]: be protean, not a pro
ckg [15k\]: you can read sduffs transcriptions later
charkysan [12k\]: toast, if you don't have speakers, look for an earphone plug input on your computer
NannyOgg [-\]: you can read the transcripts later, toastcrumb
gryn [17k?\]: toast, there will be atranscript later at http://tengen.bur.st/
SilkLegsy [15k\]: a
daveh [19k?\]: k thanks
]
;W[oq]CR[oq]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: hahahaha ^^
MysticoN [10k\]: :D
olczyk [15k\]: A strike when the iron is hot
SudenDeath [7k\]: i choose silence
]
;B[ll]CR[ll]C[tetris [-\]: so why not start with it
Spartan101 [8k?\]: how to attack if w runs
Launchpad [-\]: now he forgot
Launchpad [-\]: XD
tetris [-\]: me either
dolphyfan [22k\]: about pushing at J4
elciego [27k?\]: thx
]
(;W[nj]CR[nj]C[kiusao [-\]: O10 
daveh [19k?\]: doesnt *look* good
SudenDeath [7k\]: ^_^
Spartan101 [8k?\]: you play in center never bad
NannyOgg [-\]: gives away later possibilities
Spartan101 [8k?\]: yeah
Spartan101 [8k?\]: hahahaha
Launchpad [-\]: just q12?
nachtrabe [-\]: not a chance
Launchpad [-\]: :)
Tors [20k?\]: I would like to be able to play something simple.
Fishbulb [12k\]: YAY!
Siru [10k?\]: haha! flowergo!!
MysticoN [10k\]: :D
Uvas [-\]: I love flourdough
MysticoN [10k\]: so funny
Spartan101 [8k?\]: me too!!!!
charkysan [12k\]: "or kid" go
charkysan [12k\]: orchid
olczyk [15k\]: Is that the same as country go?
elciego [27k?\]: what is "overplay"?
]
(;B[ok]CR[ok]C[Launchpad [-\]: ew
Spartan101 [8k?\]: good
Launchpad [-\]: I say bad
SudenDeath [7k\]: a pretty move.
gryn [17k?\]: seems bad.
tetris [-\]: i like it
Siru [10k?\]: can do better right
MysticoN [10k\]: bad
wetnose [16k\]: good
charkysan [12k\]: b should extend first
GameFAQs [12k\]: I don't like it.
retsugo [12k\]: bad
mallow [19k?\]: Looks bad
Spartan101 [8k?\]: if...
NannyOgg [-\]: feels aji keshi-ish
hotcoffee [11k\]: black's a little weak
ChiyoDad [19k\]: hmm, causes complications ... I like it.
olczyk [15k\]: Bad but when I play three corners, i fear it.
charkysan [12k\]: there is a tesuji for killing p9 into tower formation
]
;W[ol]CR[ol]
;B[nk]CR[nk]
;W[mk]CR[mk]
;B[ml]CR[ml]C[SudenDeath [7k\]: yes!!!
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i dont know how to handle these
Launchpad [-\]: lol
]
;W[pi]CR[pi]
;B[mj]CR[mj]
;W[qj]CR[qj]
;B[lk]CR[lk]
;W[pk]CR[pk]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: tesuji
]
;B[oj]CR[oj]
;W[qh]CR[qh])
(;B[ph]CR[ph]C[MysticoN [10k\]: ^^
SudenDeath [7k\]: hehe, so true
jgolo: w will defend p9 no?
wetnose [16k\]: oho, so that's what is going on
charkysan [12k\]: it confirms what poor judgment we have  :)
kiusao [-\]: Q6 
Spartan101 [8k?\]: what if you had a stone alread to stabolize?
MysticoN [10k\]: M10 
NannyOgg [-\]: lack of experience 
charkysan [12k\]: lack of judgment is the worst kind of judgment
Spartan101 [8k?\]: like in real life
olczyk [15k\]: How does white react if black plays P9? 
mallow [19k?\]: A problem of this approach seems to be that the players one plays against will play these insanely complicated moves.
kiusao [-\]: Q6 
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i wouldnt want to fight 3 on one!
gryn [17k?\]: no matter what white plays, i'm going to ask why :)
kiusao [-\]: Q6 
]
;W[lk]CR[lk]TR[jp][kp][lp]C[wetnose [16k\]: L9
MysticoN [10k\]: L8 
gryn [17k?\]: ok nevermind that white move is great :)
jgolo: l7
tetris [-\]: L8
Gst34578: l8
Launchpad [-\]: L8
Spartan101 [8k?\]: l9
Fishbulb [12k\]: n7
xix [19k?\]: l8
Uvas [-\]: l8
hotcoffee [11k\]: L8?
SilkLegsy [15k\]: play away c 8
ChiyoDad [19k\]: N9
hotcoffee [11k\]: L9 is too greedy?
olczyk [15k\]: O12?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: to easy for white
SudenDeath [7k\]: so just p9
mallow [19k?\]: I would probably play L9 automatically here
ChiyoDad [19k\]: A waste.
dolphyfan [22k\]: why?
daveh [19k?\]: how close is "next"?
wetnose [16k\]: negative
Agilis [10k\]: redundant
charkysan [12k\]: slack
tetris [-\]: overconcentrated?
]
(;B[kl]CR[kl]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: l8 i mean
Uvas [-\]: !!!
MysticoN [10k\]: uh oh :D
wetnose [16k\]: whew
charkysan [12k\]: does l4 group count as a wall in relation to this fight?
tetris [-\]: yeah, it's a wall
DesB [9k?\]: take one of the star points?
])
(;AB[lm])
(;AB[lj][lm][mo]C[charkysan [12k\]: wasteful
Gst34578: horriblest
NannyOgg [-\]: baddest
])
(;B[lm]CR[lm]C[elciego [27k?\]: dense
]
;W[lj]CR[lj]
;B[mo]CR[mo])
(;B[kk]CR[kk]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: if 2 jump3 if 3 jump 4 right shygost? ^^
olczyk [15k\]: What about N9 as a sacrifice?
]
;W[lj]CR[lj]C[tetris [-\]: isn't this very good for w?
SudenDeath [7k\]: p9
tetris [-\]: nice shape?
tetris [-\]: nice shape
Spartan101 [8k?\]: its not
tetris [-\]: i see
jgolo: now B q9 good?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: thickness
mallow [19k?\]: Somewhere around R8 here?
ChiyoDad [19k\]: n8
Spartan101 [8k?\]: influence
Webmaster [29k?\]: how can you read the points at this point?
nachtrabe [-\]: he means counting
olczyk [15k\]: Count.
tetris [-\]: he means how can you count it
Spartan101 [8k?\]: ^^
ckg [15k\]: he means local points
charkysan [12k\]: if you want to get back to basic/change, we can take back this whole fight
tetris [-\]: hi nacht
NannyOgg [-\]: just look at W , webmaster, he is not surrounding anything, just running
MysticoN [10k\]: n7
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i cant count good
mallow [19k?\]: R8?
Gst34578: o12
ChiyoDad [19k\]: It looks like W can make good shape with N11 or N8, I'd want to deny N8.
olczyk [15k\]: Actually White is trying to make two points.
SudenDeath [7k\]: p9
wetnose [16k\]: L10
NannyOgg [-\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?DoubleSente
]
(;B[pk]CR[pk]
;W[ol]CR[ol]C[SudenDeath [7k\]: p9 instead
Spartan101 [8k?\]: no more aji
MysticoN [10k\]: N7 ?
])
(;B[mm]CR[mm]C[tetris [-\]: nono
MysticoN [10k\]: :p
])
(;B[ml]CR[ml]C[SudenDeath [7k\]: p9
Spartan101 [8k?\]: n8
tetris [-\]: no
Spartan101 [8k?\]: whats that mean
daveh [19k?\]: explain it?
]
;W[nk]LB[fc:D][jd:E][cf:B][dj:A][gq:C]TR[lj][nj][lk][nk][nl][pl]C[charkysan [12k\]: at least twice the value, since it gives you profit and also takes away the other guy's: double sente
daveh [19k?\]: thanks.
charkysan [12k\]: so "ok" means ok for now
Spartan101 [8k?\]: fine
tetris [-\]: fine
wetnose [16k\]: looks a-ok
hotcoffee [11k\]: stronggggggggggggg
gryn [17k?\]: doing ok.
charkysan [12k\]: ok means has enough options to be ok if attacked
Spartan101 [8k?\]: waht about cut at l8?
tetris [-\]: no eyes...
wetnose [16k\]: a bit cramped
charkysan [12k\]: no eyes yet
ckg [15k\]: they look ok
tetris [-\]: but they ARE out...
gryn [17k?\]: they are ok, but can't be surrounded with one move.
mallow [19k?\]: I would want to keep them from the right side here, alternatively keep them from running to the top
tetris [-\]: nonono
Spartan101 [8k?\]: yep
gryn [17k?\]: corner move!
ckg [15k\]: what is big
Webmaster [29k?\]: d10?
SilkLegsy [15k\]: c9
MysticoN [10k\]: C14 
hotcoffee [11k\]: F17?
Agilis [10k\]: F16 
nachtrabe [-\]: C14?
seancl [23k\]: F16?
Gst34578: c14
dolphyfan [22k\]: F17
tetris [-\]: k16
wetnose [16k\]: K16
gryn [17k?\]: any of the three corners
mallow [19k?\]: F17
Fishbulb [12k\]: c14
tetris [-\]: d10
ChiyoDad [19k\]: d10
Spartan101 [8k?\]: upper right corner
ckg [15k\]: top
retsugo [12k\]: C10
xix [19k?\]: k16
tetris [-\]: g3 not bad
NannyOgg [-\]: R17
ckg [15k\]: k16
tetris [-\]: but not big
Fishbulb [12k\]: the top 
wetnose [16k\]: or just approach
SilkLegsy [15k\]: k 16
NannyOgg [-\]: F17
Zero9090 [12k\]: F3
jgolo: upper left lokks tasty
GameFAQs [12k\]: Oh no, my audio bit the dust...
Spartan101 [8k?\]: y b?
wetnose [16k\]: what about
olczyk [15k\]: Can you estimate the value of G3?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: whats sente value?
tetris [-\]: that's getting big
tetris [-\]: it does?
tetris [-\]: affect w group?
ckg [15k\]: do you need to figure out who ends up in sente to count
charkysan [12k\]: g3 also makes b stronger for extension up left side
mallow [19k?\]: sente value, I think, is that you can take what you get there and play another big move afterwards anyway
Spartan101 [8k?\]: w big trouble
charkysan [12k\]: amazing that that many w stones on the 3rd line can be vulnerable
Launchpad [-\]: yep
charkysan [12k\]: because w is not anchored in corner
daveh [19k?\]: I kinda like E
daveh [19k?\]: for helping the group
DesB [9k?\]: E works with marked W stones?
wetnose [16k\]: that's why i like E
mallow [19k?\]: Soo, C first because it's sente, then E?
charkysan [12k\]: E bigger?
ckg [15k\]: i like e
gryn [17k?\]: C
MysticoN [10k\]: C
SilkLegsy [15k\]: C
olczyk [15k\]: C
daveh [19k?\]: E
davidwatt [7k\]: C
Fishbulb [12k\]: e
mallow [19k?\]: C
wetnose [16k\]: C
cynewulf [?\]: C
Webmaster [29k?\]: C
jgolo: e
xix [19k?\]: e
NannyOgg [-\]: C
Gst34578: c
DesB [9k?\]: E
seancl [23k\]: C
Spartan101 [8k?\]: c first
GameFAQs [12k\]: E.
Launchpad [-\]: E
]
(;B[as]CR[as]
;W[pf]CR[pf]
;B[og]CR[og]
;W[of]CR[of]
;B[mg]CR[mg]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: yep
]
;W[ki]CR[ki]
;B[nd]CR[nd])
(;B[sa]CR[sa]
;W[kl]CR[kl]
;B[jk]CR[jk]C[gryn [17k?\]: but => because*
]
;W[jl]CR[jl]
;B[ip]CR[ip]
;W[hq]CR[hq]
;B[il]CR[il]
;W[ik]CR[ik]
;B[ki]CR[ki]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: oh ok i c
])
(;B[kj]CR[kj]C[Uvas [-\]: ask captain
]
;W[lh]CR[lh]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: I think the W group can live.
Spartan101 [8k?\]: attack and get influence
wetnose [16k\]: take profit
])
(;B[gq]CR[gq]C[Launchpad [-\]: ouch
Fishbulb [12k\]: e makes more points
ckg [15k\]: e\\
jessica95 [19k?\]: e
]
(;W[sa]CR[sa]
;B[jr]CR[jr]
;W[jq]CR[jq]
;B[ir]CR[ir])
(;W[fc]CR[fc]
;B[jr]CR[jr]
;W[jq]CR[jq]
;B[ir]CR[ir]
;W[hq]CR[hq]
;B[hr]CR[hr]C[tetris [-\]: isn't w still ok?
]
;W[ce]CR[ce]
;B[rq]CR[rq]C[tetris [-\]: oh
]
;W[qr]CR[qr]
;B[nr]CR[nr]
;W[nq]CR[nq]
;B[ms]CR[ms]C[tetris [-\]: not if w tenuki
])
(;W[hq]CR[hq]C[ckg [15k\]: e
Launchpad [-\]: I demand a recount
daveh [19k?\]: hehe
gryn [17k?\]: e is no points.
elciego [27k?\]: you  do that
]
;B[gp]CR[gp]C[ckg [15k\]: i voted three times
Launchpad [-\]: lol
charkysan [12k\]: cheater
ScatCat [12k\]: lol
MysticoN [10k\]: haha
GameFAQs [12k\]: E is no secure points, no.
tetris [-\]: lol
GameFAQs [12k\]: But it's definitely worth something.
olczyk [15k\]: You from Chicago,ckg?
DesB [9k?\]: now D10 looks better?
charkysan [12k\]: go back to E
ckg [15k\]: lol
tetris [-\]: chicao famous for rigged votes
Spartan101 [8k?\]: top it off with d 10
]
(;W[io]CR[io]
;B[ip]CR[ip]
;W[hp]CR[hp]
;B[ho]CR[ho]C[NannyOgg [-\]: all cheaters are from chicago?
])
(;AB[ji][hp][ip]C[tetris [-\]: chicago
Uvas [-\]: yay
olczyk [15k\]: The good election cheaterfs are.
GameFAQs [12k\]: Florida mirite.
tetris [-\]: that too :)
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Yes
])
(;W[kj]CR[kj]C[charkysan [12k\]: the web of life on the goban is all interconnected
Uvas [-\]: k9
Gst34578: k9
NannyOgg [-\]: K10
xix [19k?\]: k9
Webmaster [29k?\]: tengen
tetris [-\]: huh?
MysticoN [10k\]: K10 
charkysan [12k\]: shygost ecology 101
Launchpad [-\]: are you wrasslin' an bear?
Launchpad [-\]: there's that bear again
gryn [17k?\]: nanny is my hero.
]
(;B[jj]CR[jj]C[wetnose [16k\]: k9
Uvas [-\]: oh
Spartan101 [8k?\]: nanny knows best!
olczyk [15k\]: K9 cut?
]
(;W[kl]CR[kl]
;B[jk]CR[jk]
;W[lm]CR[lm]
;B[jl]CR[jl]
;W[km]CR[km]
;B[jm]CR[jm]
;W[mm]CR[mm]
;B[di]CR[di]C[NannyOgg [-\]: :)
Uvas [-\]: nice
])
(;W[ho]CR[ho]
;B[hp]CR[hp]C[charkysan [12k\]: *cringes at having ever had that idea shy said was so bad*
]
;W[ip]CR[ip]
;B[io]CR[io]
;W[jo]CR[jo]
;B[in]CR[in]
;W[mp]CR[mp]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[kl]CR[kl]
;B[jk]CR[jk]
;W[ln]CR[ln]
;B[lo]CR[lo]
;W[mm]CR[mm])
(;W[kh]CR[kh]C[gryn [17k?\]: K9
ScatCat [12k\]: K11 
]
;B[jk]CR[jk]C[mallow [19k?\]: K8 not good here?
SilkLegsy [15k\]: won'te k 8 be better?
daveh [19k?\]: label the cuts?
olczyk [15k\]: C an you show them?
ckg [15k\]: so if you have to fix it is a double hane good?
charkysan [12k\]: w still has no profit in center
]
(;W[ss]CR[ss]
;B[ji]CR[ji])
(;W[ji]CR[ji]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Good shape.
wetnose [16k\]: tiger mouth..
charkysan [12k\]: double sente is jealousy: can't let you have the big cookie
tetris [-\]: j11
MysticoN [10k\]: hmm
elciego [27k?\]: i want a cookie
Launchpad [-\]: H10
Webmaster [29k?\]: d10?
hotcoffee [11k\]: M12?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: the what
gryn [17k?\]: O12
olczyk [15k\]: D10
saxman45 [10k\]: H11
DesB [9k?\]: Q14?
enchanter [6k?\]: C14
Uvas [-\]: n12
mallow [19k?\]: N11?
xix [19k?\]: n12
gryn [17k?\]: urgent move?
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
MysticoN [10k\]: oh
tetris [-\]: yay!
sduff [17k?\]: =)
MysticoN [10k\]: ^
MysticoN [10k\]: ^^
nachtrabe [-\]: curse of my existence
Launchpad [-\]: :D
Uvas [-\]: n12 is no good?
mallow [19k?\]: It's obvious now...how long before one gets a magic eye like that? ;P
ckg [15k\]: magic eye?
gryn [17k?\]: charky :P
charkysan [12k\]: i need urgent stones to flash on the screen
mallow [19k?\]: Now...this may be a stupid question, but I just had an idea. what about P14 here? If white R14, white looks weak there.
tetris [-\]: not as good, is it?
dolphyfan [22k\]: instead of R15
Uvas [-\]: instead of r15
gryn [17k?\]: now p14
]
(;B[pf]CR[pf]C[GameFAQs [12k\]: I told him that!
sduff [17k?\]: Aussie Aussie Aussie!!!
MysticoN [10k\]: i forgot that
ScatCat [12k\]: R14 
ckg [15k\]: bad move
gryn [17k?\]: mallow order from hogwarts & robuck.
elciego [27k?\]: magic eye?
daveh [19k?\]: ^
olczyk [15k\]: Is S9 a good way?
])
(;B[co]CR[co]C[charkysan [12k\]: it's that aussie beer
]
;W[pf]CR[pf]C[Launchpad [-\]: oye oye oye!
])
(;B[mh]CR[mh]C[Uvas [-\]: ok
]
;W[mg]CR[mg])
(;B[ss]CR[ss]C[dolphyfan [22k\]: what is ME?
seancl [23k\]: haha
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i have problems then^^
MysticoN [10k\]: :)
elciego [27k?\]: wait, what?
elciego [27k?\]: lol
gryn [17k?\]: magic eye, he means seeing such obvious but seemingly hard to find moves.
dolphyfan [22k\]: ah
charkysan [12k\]: not hard? just pay attention? then i guess i have ADHD
Spartan101 [8k?\]: then
Spartan101 [8k?\]: attack
Spartan101 [8k?\]: biggest point after that
Spartan101 [8k?\]: i did
olczyk [15k\]: Sounds like an infomercial.
charkysan [12k\]: get bifocals?  see urgent and big with the same glasses?
]
;W[pf]CR[pf]C[tetris [-\]: eek
Launchpad [-\]: eek
MysticoN [10k\]: eeww
])
(;B[pg]CR[pg]C[GameFAQs [12k\]: Your time flashes when its in trouble. Why not your stones?!
olczyk [15k\]: S9 P14,Q14 R14
])
(;B[qe]CR[qe]C[tetris [-\]: q13?
Spartan101 [8k?\]: yep
Batavia [11k\]: R14 ?
charkysan [12k\]: so r15 is best idea?
charkysan [12k\]: idea, i said, not move
mallow [19k?\]: Oh, 
ScatCat [12k\]: in lieu of r15
olczyk [15k\]: Instead of R15.
Spartan101 [8k?\]: solid
]
(;W[hi]CR[hi]C[daveh [19k?\]: sente good?
gryn [17k?\]: sente is good if the board looks good afterwards.
charkysan [12k\]: so if h11 is so good for w, can b get away with playing h11 before r15?
Launchpad [-\]: so, B wants a group on top?
Agilis [10k\]: top's growing for white
olczyk [15k\]: K16 D10 G9 
mallow [19k?\]: Hmm. shygost doesn't consider it, so it's probably bad...but why does P14 fail?
gryn [17k?\]: mallow, he's not doing every move :)
tetris [-\]: w doesn't to to top?
Launchpad [-\]: go all the way?
]
(;B[mk]CR[mk]
;W[mj]CR[mj])
(;B[of]CR[of]C[seancl [23k\]: doesn't get the corner
])
(;B[fc]CR[fc]C[gryn [17k?\]: tetris this attacks black, and helps move to the corner.
]
;W[hc]CR[hc]LB[cc:B][dc:E][hd:D][fe:C][cf:A]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: k17
dolphyfan [22k\]: C14
Webmaster [29k?\]: K16?
gryn [17k?\]: f15
tetris [-\]: you think so, gryn?
Launchpad [-\]: I would say jump out, F15
ScatCat [12k\]: F15 
cynewulf [?\]: c17
davidwatt [7k\]: C17 
Gst34578: g15
jgolo: c17
MysticoN [10k\]: F15 
Gst34578: f15
daveh [19k?\]: k17
olczyk [15k\]: K17
Agilis [10k\]: H16 
Spartan101 [8k?\]: how
charkysan [12k\]: is A bigger because of d4? or does h11 neutralize that relationship?
gryn [17k?\]: So is F17 still a good move?
]
(;B[fe]CR[fe]
;W[df]CR[df]
;B[db]CR[db]
;W[cc]CR[cc]
;B[id]CR[id]
;W[hd]CR[hd]
;B[he]CR[he]
(;W[ie]CR[ie])
(;W[ic]CR[ic]
;B[jd]CR[jd]C[wetnose [16k\]: man that happened to me last game..
]
;W[jc]CR[jc]
;B[kd]CR[kd]
;W[lc]CR[lc]
;B[if]CR[if]
;W[gd]CR[gd]
;B[fd]CR[fd]
;W[gf]CR[gf]
;B[ge]CR[ge]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Painful ... I'd rather take C17.
]
;W[cb]CR[cb]
;B[eb]CR[eb]))
(;B[hd]CR[hd]
;W[ic]CR[ic]C[Uvas [-\]: b
]
;B[gd]CR[gd])
(;B[dc]CR[dc]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: i know the move but i dont know what to go through
]
;W[cc]CR[cc]
(;B[cb]CR[cb]
(;W[cd]CR[cd]
;B[eb]CR[eb]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: ok
])
(;W[ec]CR[ec]
;B[db]CR[db]
;W[ed]CR[ed]C[charkysan [12k\]: if b has so much trouble getting much profit from f17, is it a good idea in the first place?
]
(;B[eb]CR[eb]
;W[bc]CR[bc]
;B[fd]CR[fd]C[seancl [23k\]: big left for W now?
]
;W[gb]CR[gb]
;B[fb]CR[fb]
;W[ef]CR[ef]C[gryn [17k?\]: charysan just askeed that :)
tetris [-\]: this looks terrible for b
]
;B[hd]CR[hd]C[wetnose [16k\]: sudden life trouble..
])
(;B[cd]CR[cd]
;W[ce]CR[ce]
(;B[bd]CR[bd]
;W[be]CR[be]
;B[bc]CR[bc]
;W[eb]CR[eb])
(;B[bc]CR[bc]
(;W[bd]CR[bd]
;B[eb]CR[eb])
(;W[eb]CR[eb]
;B[be]CR[be]C[MysticoN [10k\]: yup :p
Uvas [-\]: aww
ckg [15k\]: time flies
tetris [-\]: aww
wetnose [16k\]: :(
daveh [19k?\]: keep going!!!
ScatCat [12k\]: :)
Spartan101 [8k?\]: yep u did ^^
daveh [19k?\]: thanks for the gift
gryn [17k?\]: christmas on goban :)
Spartan101 [8k?\]: we got to pay!?
charkysan [12k\]: if more chip in, maybe we can get longer?
Gst34578: thanks
ckg [15k\]: thanks shy
tetris [-\]: thank the contributors... shy got paid
olczyk [15k\]: Before you finish, How is Black going to deal with the top?
dolphyfan [22k\]: thank you , shygost
]
(;W[mc]CR[mc]
;B[cf]CR[cf]C[Uvas [-\]: thanks shy
])
(;W[cf]CR[cf]C[NannyOgg [-\]: you are welcome to donate, spartan, but it's not required to be able to attend
]
;B[mc]CR[mc]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: big corner
ckg [15k\]: you had 60 people here tonight
ckg [15k\]: more or less
Launchpad [-\]: is there a non paypal way to go?
tetris [-\]: yes
ScatCat [12k\]: ttfn shy
tetris [-\]: send check
wetnose [16k\]: thanks
Webmaster [29k?\]: thanks
davidwatt [7k\]: thanks
charkysan [12k\]: thanks shy
NannyOgg [-\]: yes, you can send check
Launchpad [-\]: ok
mallow [19k?\]: thanks shygost
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Thanks shy!
retsugo [12k\]: thx
ScatCat [12k\]: glad i could catch the end :)
jgolo: thanks a lot
Launchpad [-\]: roger
xix [19k?\]: thx shy
Gst34578: will there be more lessons if more ppl pay?
ckg [15k\]: i love these lots of fun good things to see
gryn [17k?\]: thanks shy :)
olczyk [15k\]: Thank you.
NannyOgg [-\]: yes, gst, you got it
Launchpad [-\]: roger
Launchpad [-\]: :)
MysticoN [10k\]: thnx
daveh [19k?\]: wicked.  is 
ckg [15k\]: yes as long as the money flows the lessons go
kiusao [-\]: Thanks
daveh [19k?\]: thanks
Jaydee [19k\]: thank
Launchpad [-\]: thanks bud
MysticoN [10k\]: bye
seancl [23k\]: thank you shy
Gst34578: cool
Gst34578: thx
NannyOgg [-\]: Thank you, shy
ckg [15k\]: bye
tetris [-\]: night
elciego [27k?\]: thanks
enchanter [6k?\]: thank you
Batavia [11k\]: tnx
GameFAQs [12k\]: I still think Q3 was wrong.
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
Deebster [16k?\]: this was the first one I've caught - excellent stuff!
tetris [-\]: q3 was fine
tetris [-\]: it's joseki
sduff [17k?\]: deebster, old lessons at tengen.bur.st
GameFAQs [12k\]: Takeo Kajiwara 9p disagrees!
ckg [15k\]: and thanks to sduff we can review them too
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
daveh [19k?\]: quiet now without the shy's voice
dolphyfan [22k\]: worth every nickle and then some.
Deebster [16k?\]: Cheers sduff, if it wasn't 4am here, I'd go straight away ;)
GameFAQs [12k\]: The Direction of Play, page 59.
mallow [19k?\]: This is worth much more than a dollar
ckg [15k\]: page 59?
GameFAQs [12k\]: Yes. >_>
ckg [15k\]: which move are you referencing?
dolphyfan [22k\]: we're not limited to a dollar, you know?
GameFAQs [12k\]: The second one.
tetris [-\]: q3
ckg [15k\]: lol
mallow [19k?\]: I know.
tetris [-\]: some people are putting in $100
ckg [15k\]: the board is symetrical how can it be bad?
GameFAQs [12k\]: Page 59, it shows the early fuseki sequence of Q16 Q3 E16 D4 Q5. He says, "This is very bad.(for white)" 
ckg [15k\]: the $100 was to get things going
mallow [19k?\]: Yes, I heard that in the beginning. But 1$ seems to be some sort of standard fee. And I daresay it's worth a lot more.
GameFAQs [12k\]: Black should play the Takamoku then take the good approach.
tetris [-\]: no, a dollar is not the standard fee
ckg [15k\]: what is taka moku?
tetris [-\]: there is no standard fee
ckg [15k\]: game?
tetris [-\]: when sduff put in the button, he mistakenly put a dollar on it, i think, but there is now no limit on what you can contribute, and you can also contribute nothing
GameFAQs [12k\]: Oh, 5-4.
mallow [19k?\]: I'm trying to estimate who wins here...
tetris [-\]: who wins the game
tetris [-\]: ?
mallow [19k?\]: If this had went on, yes
dolphyfan [22k\]: the idea was evryone kicked in $1 per game with the current average turnout, shygost would approximate his normal lesson fee
daveh [19k?\]: seems like the website says 5.00 is the standard fee
mallow [19k?\]: Ah
GameFAQs [12k\]: The takamoku is the 5-4 point.
GameFAQs [12k\]: >_>
tetris [-\]: what website?
tetris [-\]: daveh?
mallow [19k?\]: tengen.bur.st
ckg [15k\]: shy will just keep these up as long as there is money to pay his time
daveh [19k?\]: http://tengen.bur.st/
dolphyfan [22k\]: paypal link, tetris
ckg [15k\]: it seems to be working so far
dolphyfan [22k\]: well, the real test of our willingness comes after the initial 30 lessons
ckg [15k\]: there you go but we are gaining credit on the future every time someone sends some money to him
dolphyfan [22k\]: yep :-)
ckg [15k\]: bye for now
dolphyfan [22k\]: see ya
tetris [-\]: that 5.00 next to "donation" can be wiped out and replaced, of course
]))))))
(;B[ed]CR[ed]C[gryn [17k?\]: ok :)
]))
(;B[cc]CR[cc]C[daveh [19k?\]: looks like more eyes that way
]
;W[dc]CR[dc]
;B[cd]CR[cd]
;W[de]CR[de]
;B[db]CR[db]
;W[eb]CR[eb]
;B[cb]CR[cb]
;W[ec]CR[ec]
;B[cf]CR[cf]
;W[dg]CR[dg]
;B[kc]CR[kc])))
(;W[of]CR[of]C[mallow [19k?\]: O14
mallow [19k?\]: i mean
wetnose [16k\]: p14...against the white stone?
Launchpad [-\]: no, omit R15
NannyOgg [-\]: no instead of R15
]))
(;B[qf]CR[qf]
;W[qc]CR[qc])
(;B[qd]CR[qd]
;W[of]CR[of]C[Spartan101 [8k?\]: no
]
;B[qf]CR[qf])
(;B[of]CR[of]C[NannyOgg [-\]: P14 now
wetnose [16k\]: now play q14
charkysan [12k\]: if b can connect under r8 or make life that direction, then can b afford to play h11 before defending at r15?
Launchpad [-\]: that's what he means
wetnose [16k\]: oh
Spartan101 [8k?\]: no corner
Uvas [-\]: yes
gryn [17k?\]: yes
]
;W[qf]CR[qf]C[dolphyfan [22k\]: yes
mallow [19k?\]: This looks also sane, but I was thinking O14
]))))
(;B[jk]CR[jk]
;W[jj]CR[jj]C[gryn [17k?\]: well shy is my hero too.
]
;B[ik]CR[ik]
;W[ij]CR[ij]C[NannyOgg [-\]: lol, thank you, gryn
Uvas [-\]: ok
]))))
(;B[cf]CR[cf]C[wetnose [16k\]: the 3 is not enough thing then..?
tetris [-\]: so it IS ok
]
;W[fq]CR[fq])
(;AB[id][jd][kd][ld][ji]))
(;B[kj]CR[kj]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Double sente?
]
;W[ml]CR[ml]C[elciego [27k?\]: when whoever gets there first has sente, right?
]
;B[sa]CR[sa]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Agh!
]
;W[lm]CR[lm]C[nachtrabe [-\]: sente for both sides 
ckg [15k\]: sente for both
]
;B[kl]CR[kl]
;W[mn]CR[mn]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[jn]CR[jn]C[GameFAQs [12k\]: Sente plus reverse sente?
]))
(;B[mk]CR[mk]C[charkysan [12k\]: hooray
ChiyoDad [19k\]: Split white.
mallow [19k?\]: looks dangerous
])))
(;W[mp]CR[mp]C[hotcoffee [11k\]: greedy.
charkysan [12k\]: but if b extends to q12 first, then the push into the tower at p9 might be nice
elciego [27k?\]: ok
]
;B[mo]CR[mo]
;W[kn]CR[kn]C[ChiyoDad [19k\]: Unreasonable.
]
;B[ln]CR[ln]
;W[ip]CR[ip]
;B[ok]CR[ok]
;W[ol]CR[ol]
;B[mj]CR[mj]))
(;B[pp]CR[pp]
;W[qq]CR[qq]C[Uvas [-\]: hi legsy
]
;B[oq]CR[oq]
;W[or]CR[or]
;B[nr]CR[nr]
;W[nq]CR[nq]
;B[op]CR[op]C[daveh [19k?\]: ok.  i thought i was missing something
]
;W[pr]CR[pr]C[daveh [19k?\]: k.
])))
(;B[nj]CR[nj])))
(;B[qj]CR[qj]
;W[pj]CR[pj]))
(;W[oo]CR[oo]
;B[on]CR[on]
;W[op]CR[op]
;B[pn]CR[pn])))))
